55. KHITAN-LIAO 907 AD - 1125 AD
New list.
Cold. Ag 2. WW, Rv, H(G), H(S), RGo, BUA
C-inC – Reg Cv(S) @ 30 AP 1
Sub-general – Reg Cv(S) @ 30AP 1-3
Khitan regular troops – Reg Cv(S) @ 10AP 15-45
Regrade Khitans to ‘foragers’ without horse armour Reg Cv(O) @ 8AP half or none
Unarmed civilians driven ahead of the army - Irr Hd (I) @ 0.5AP 0-10
Chinese construction troops or militia levy - Irr Hd (O) @ 1AP 0-30
Chinese swordsmen - Reg Bd (I) @ 5AP or Reg Bd (F) @ 7AP **6-10
Chinese crossbowmen - Reg Bw (I) @ 4AP or Reg Bw (O) @ 5AP **6-10
Chinese cavalry - Reg Cv (S) @ 10AP **2-3
Chinese bolt-shooters - Reg Art (O) @ 8AP 0-2
Chinese stone-throwers - Reg Art (I) @ 4AP or Reg Art (S) @ 10AP 0-2
Palisade for camp - TF @ lAP 0-12
Ships - Irr Shp (S) @ 4AP or Irr Shp (O) @ 3AP [Bd or Bw] 0-2
Horse-transports - Irr Shp (I) @ 2AP [Cv or LH] 0-4
Camp – Reg Bge (O) @ 3AP, or horse herds Reg Bge (F) @ 3AP 0-2 per regular general
Steppe allies - List: Tribal Mongolian (Bk 3 list 44)
Tribal POW command
Tribal ally general – Irr Cv(i) @ 9AP *****1
Tribal troops – Irr Cv(i) @ 5AP *****4-10
Camp – Irr Bge (O) @ 2AP, or horse herds Irr Bge (F) @ 2AP 0-2
Only from 951 AD to 979 AD:
Northern Han allies - List: Late T'ang and Five Dynasties Chinese (Bk 3 list 39)
Only after 1120 AD:
Xixia allies - List: Hsi-Hsia (Bk 3 list 66)
Only from 911 AD to 922 AD and from 924 AD to 1123 AD:
Xi command
Xi subordinate general – Reg Cv(S) @ 30AP or Reg LH(S) @ 27AP ***1
Xi troops - Reg LH(S) @ 7AP ***5-20
Camp – Irr Bge (O) @ 2AP, or horse herds Irr Bge (F) @ 2AP 0-2
Only before 1112 AD
Jurchen POW command
Jurchen ally general – Irr LH(S) @ 11AP ****1
Jurchen troops – Irr LH(S) @ 6AP ****4-10
Camp – Irr Bge (O) @ 2AP, or horse herds Irr Bge (F) @ 2AP 0-2
After 1100 AD
Regrade all Jurchen as Irr Kn(F) @ 14AP if general, 9AP otherwise all or none.
The Khitan (Qidan in pinyin), nomads speaking a Mongolian language, had lived in southern Manchuria from 400 AD. In 898 Yelu Ahbaoji (WG:Yeh-lu A-pao-chi, AD 782-926)seized control and started to transform their tribal organization into a centralized monarchy. The new Khitan dynasty was formally declared in 907 (renamed Liao in 947, Khitan in 983 then Liao in 1066). The new Liao state expanded to control Mongolia and the Jurchen tribes of the northern Manchurian forests, and in 936 supported a Shato (Sha-t'o) rebel in the creation of the Later Chin state, in exchange for a foothold in Chinese territory, including modern Beijing. They defeated several Sung Chinese attempts to regain this territory. The Empire collapsed in civil war and a revolt of their Jurchen vassals in 1114-1125.
Ahbaojii also changed Khitan military power from tribal militia to a permanent army loyal to him. The first army was the 200,000 strong Shushan (20-30,000 in some sources). Later he expanded his “belly and heart guard” into the first Ordo. The Ordo was personal guard to the Emperor; built, maintained and guarded his tomb; had ‘control centres’, cities, lands etc and provided immediately available armoured cavalry for the state. Each succeeding Emperor and Empress (Khitan accepted female rule) created an additional Ordo and they became the dominant part of the army. The immediately available standing troops of the ordos increased from 6000 in 926 to 76000 in 1125. There were also regular troops based in cities and fortifications along each frontier. All cities etc also had garrison families providing artillery, crossbowmen and other troops. The militia of the Southern Circuit (largely Chinese) was over a million strong. It included crossbowmen, swordsmen, catapult troops, elite cavalry, watchmen, police and well equipped logistics and construction troops for the army. Liao campaigning strength was based on the elite ordo armies, mostly Khitan cavalry but including Chinese troops. The ordos were always the first troops to be mobilised. They were supplemented by troops from the Khitan, Xi (Hsi) and other tribes, which were both political and military organizations, and militia. Large contingents of POWs from outside the Empire were often used as shock troops.
Armies normally deployed in five main bodies and often placed extra units in ambush. Regular cavalry were organised into columns of ten regiments. Each regiment was 500-700 men. The main body showered the enemy with arrows, each regiment attacking in turn and breaking off if the enemy didn’t waver. If they did, the whole unit charged.
All men between 15 and 50 were placed on the military register, each family provided two men for the government (for the army, militia, border guards or police). Khitan amilies (and many other groups) provided ‘regular’ soldiers. The "regular soldiers" of the ordo had each to provide three horses, one forager and one orderly. Each man (the regular and the forager) had to bring iron armour, saddles, bridles, leather and iron horse armour, four bows, 400 arrows, long spear, short spear, mace, axe, ‘halberd’ (ji – spear with hooked dagger axe blade), banner, tools, rope etc. Contemporary art shows only lance, 1 bow, sword and mace.
Contemporary Chinese accounts stress the discipline of the Khitan armies and the superiority of their ‘iron horse’. In 922 the Jin general Li Cunxun faced 'Khitan' raiding forces which were largely made up of Xi troops. mentions facing light cavalry in the front line, backed by armoured cavalry on unarmoured horses then the fully armoured cavalry as a rear line.
Campaigns in Mongolia and Northern Manchuria often relied on large allied contingents from the subject tribes. These were frequently provided with extra armoured warhorses to give them an extra edge.
A general levy of the, mostly Chinese, militia could be called on, but was rarely used. However large numbers of construction regiments and supply regiments were used. The 10,000 Chinese militia mentioned in one passage as following the army for pioneer work, may be such a general levy, and if the last Liao armies were really anything like the reported 700,000 men, they must have included a large militia component. They are distinct from the "old and the young" who were "herded together" by the Khitan foragers to lead the advance against a besieged city, soaking up enemy missiles in the style used later by the Mongols. By contrast Chinese swordsmen, crossbowmen and artillery were trained and periodically reviewed, and some served even in the ordo armies. Minima marked ** apply only if any (non allied) Chinese troops are used. Minima marked *** only apply if any troops marked *** are used. Minima marked **** only apply if any troops marked **** are used. Minima marked ***** only apply if any troops marked ***** are used.
All Xi troops must be commanded by a Xi general. A Xi General can only command Xi troops. All Jurchen troops must be commanded by a Jurchen General. A Jurchen general can only command Jurchen troops.
The Khitan were offered “fierce-burning oil" in tribute from Wu in south China, but declined to use it as it would cause too much damage to the conquered lands.
All Khitan armies were surrounded by a large scouting force (up to 15%) selected from the best soldiers. Small numbers of armoured troops ranged out over 100 li (50km) and larger groups of armoured cavalry aggressively hunted down enemy scouts. In battle those scouts that rejoined the army fought as normal. Armoured warhorses were only mounted at the last minute and there were occasions when detached foragers didn’t have time to remount to fight hence the option for Cv(O).
Comments from DBMM list,
Re: Book 3 List 55 Khitan-Liao Cv (S)
--- In DBMMlist@yahoogroups.com, "Rudi Harmse" <Rudi.Harmse@...> wrote:
>
> "Contemporary Chinese accounts stress the discipline of the Khitan
> armies and the superiority of their `iron horse'. They mention
> facing light cavalry in the front line, backed by armoured cavalry
> on unarmoured horses then the fully armoured cavalry as a rear line."
>
> "All Khitan armies were surrounded by a large scouting force (up to
> 15%) selected from the best soldiers. Small numbers of lightly
> armoured troops ranged out over 100 li (50km) and larger groups of
> armoured cavalry aggressively hunted down enemy scouts."
>
> Where has all the Lh gone? Surely there should still be some around
> in the time covered by a DBMM game.
>
With hindsight I should have noted that the prime function of the
'scouts' was to hunt down and destroy enemy scouting forces. They were
regular cavalry units operating in regiments (500-700 strong) and
columns (10 rgts.). As with most contemporary accounts of cavalry ,
they fight en-masse rather than in dispersed groups. Scouts didn't take
the tent carts with them (and were specifically excluded from the normal
punishments for not using standard military tents). They took horse
herds, armoured warhorses and the orderlies led pack horses and mules
which carried supplies.
LH is an interesting concept, actual descriptions of cavalry fighting in
dispersed formations are very, very rare. I am taken with the 'rule of
thumb' for steppe cavalry that those fighting in lines and ranks should
be Cv, those in mob/globi should be LH (mostly s). This lets many
Mongols and some later Khitan (who were largely assimilated into the
Mongols) be LH(s).
nb. I'm glad someone is reading my stuff critically, there are likely
to be other areas I need to improve (I may be perfect, but much of my
output doesn't always reflect this!!!).
Tom..
>
>
> --- In DBMMlist@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Adamson" tom.adamson@
> wrote:
> >
> > There are several detailed descriptions of Khitan regular cavalry
> (which
> > includes the Ordos, who were never all of the army).
> > All of them are Reg Cv(s) in DBM/DBMM, terminology (though a few
> may be
> > interpreted as Reg LH(s)). There are no "charge at first instance
> > without shooting" troops.
> > I've put a revised Liao list on TNE -
> > http://tabulaenovaeexercituum.pbwiki.com/Khitan-Liao - which has a
> > complete new list, details of the changes from the existing DBM
> list,
> > new notes etc..
> >
> > The Khitans in other lists need to be regraded as well (to Reg Cv
> (s) or
> > Reg LH(s) and removing all the 'ordo orderlies' who were not
> fighting
> > troops as well).
> >
> > There is excellent evidence for early Jurchen Kn(f) however.
> >
> > Tom..
> >
> >
> > --- In DBMMlist@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Barker" <pc.barker@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rudi Harmse" Rudi.Harmse@
> > > To: DBMMlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:00 PM
> > > Subject: [DBMMlist] Book 3 List 55 Khitan-Liao Cv (S)
> > >
> > >
> > > > The notes do not reflect the fact that ordo soldiers can be Kn
> (F)
> > or Cv
> > > > (S):
> > > >
> > > > "Equal numbers of elements of ordo Kn (F), ordo Cv(O) and "
> > >
> > > Will take care of that.
> > > I'm open to persuasion that either Kn (F) or Cv (S) should be
> > standardised
> > > on.
> > >
> > > Phil
Re: Book 3 List 55 Khitan-Liao Cv (S)
--- In DBMMlist@yahoogroups.com, "Harmse, Rudi \(Mr\) \(Summerstrand
Campus North\)" <Rudi.Harmse@...> wrote:
>
> OK, most of this seems reasonable, but there seems to be one problem:
>
> "Contemporary Chinese accounts stress the discipline of the Khitan
> armies and the superiority of their 'iron horse'. They mention facing
> light cavalry in the front line, backed by armoured cavalry on
> unarmoured horses then the fully armoured cavalry as a rear line."
>
> The list as it stands in the wiki has no LH in the main list, so one
> would not get the above. This is a major problem as the DBMM battle
> includes some pre battle maneuver and would also need these elements
to
> use the scouting stratagem. Add the LH and I won't argue much with
what
> you have here.
>
>
>
> Rudi
>
Good point....
What I should have added here is that it's likely that the 'unarmoured'
types were Xi, Jurchen or steppe allies, rather than the Khitan
themselves. The Khitan were called 'iron horse' apparently because they
favoured iron horse armour rather than the leather horse armour used by
the Northern Chinese troops.
There are accounts of two garrison units in forts on the Korean frontier
only having enough armour for half of their warhorses. This is stressed
as being a very poor situation. The Liao also sent thousands of
trained, armoured horses to selected tribes in Mongolia, who were then
used against other tribes. This is probably best represented by an
upgrade to the Tribal Mongolian list notes to make the regular Khan and
guards already available also represent Liao aid.
Tom..
Baggage added per discussion in DBMMlist.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Dates of allies :-
Xi 911 to 922 and 924 to 1123
Prior to this they could be an ally but I don't see any record of it in the Imperial period. 923 the Great King of Xi revolted (over taxation).
Jurchen before 1112 (Akuta's dance)
They seem to be a fairly common part of forces facing Korea and China. Presumably that way the Liao knew where they were.
Changes to existing list
Delete..
C-in-C - Reg Kn (F) @ 31AP 1
Sub-general - Reg Kn (F) @ 31AP or Reg Cv (O) @ 28AP or Reg LH (F) @ 24AP 1-2
Replace with
C-inC – Reg Cv(S) @ 30 AP 1
Sub-general – Reg Cv(S) @ 30AP 1-3
Reason..should all be Cv(S) as per comments re ‘ordos’ all generals had a fully armoured bodyguard. Khitan armies habitually used five commands.
Delete..
Khitan ordo soldiers - Reg Kn (F) @ 11AP 5-10
Khitan ordo foragers - Reg Cv (O) @ 8AP 5-10
Khitan ordo orderlies - Reg LH (F) @ 4AP *5-10
Khitan tribal cavalry - Irr LH (F) @ 4AP 5-12
Khitan tribal nobles - Irr Cv (S) @ 9AP 0-4
Upgrade Kilitan tribal Cv to Reg Cv (S) @ 10AP and Khitan tribal LH to Reg LH (F) @ 4AP All/0
Add..
Khitan regular troops – Reg Cv(S) @ 10AP 15-45
Regrade Khitans to ‘foragers’ without horse armour Reg Cv(O) @ 8AP half or none
All Khitans were liable for service as ‘regular’ soldiers, each regular came with a ‘forager’ and an ‘orderly’. Orderlies and grooms didn’t fight. Each fighting man was required to have the listed equipment (rather than each ‘regular’ as implied by Wittfogel and Feng’s translation). The Ordos were only part of the regular army. As Warhorses were only to be mounted immediately prior to action and there is an account of the foragers returning after battle was joined (against the Song) there should be the option that they rejoined their regiments without transferring to armoured mounts.
Delete
Jurchid tribal cavalry - Irr Cv (S) @ 9AP or Irr Cv (O) @ 7AP 0-5
Tribal foot archers - Irr Ps (O) @ 2AP 0-4
Add
Xi command 911 to 922 and 924 to 1123
Xi subordinate general – Reg Cv(S) @ 30AP or Reg LH(S) @ 27AP ***1
Xi troops - Reg LH(s) @ 7AP ***5-20
After its adsorbtion into the Khitan state the Kingdom of Xi provided complete army commands on many occasions. All Xi troops must be commanded by a Xi general. A Xi General can only command Xi troops.
Add
Jurchen POW command before 1112
Jurchen ally general – Irr LH(S) @ 11AP ****1
Jurchen troops – Irr LH(S) @ 6AP ****4-10
After 1100 AD
Regrade all Jurchen as Irr Kn(F) @ 14AP if general 9AP otherwise all or none.
Jurchen POWs were used on several occasions as vanguard or shock troops. I’ve put 1100 as a probable date for their wholesale adoption of the ‘charge on sight’ tactics that became their hallmark. All Jurchen troops must be commanded by a Jurchen General. A Jurchen general can only command Jurchen troops.
Add
Tribal POW command
Tribal ally general – Irr Cv(I) @ 9AP ****1
Tribal troops – Irr Cv(I) @ 5AP ****4-10
Yelu Deguang (a good candidate for brilliant) used 4000 troops ‘on poor horses with wooden stirrups’ as a vanguard against the Jin Chinese in 947AD. The Chinese defeated them, pursued them to the river and were wiped out by Khitan ‘iron horse’ cavalry who had been in ambush behind hills on both flanks.
Unarmed civilians driven ahead of the army - Irr Hd (I) @ 0.5AP 0-10
Chinese militia levy - Irr Rd (O) @ 1AP 0-30
Chinese swordsmen - Reg Bd (I) @ 5AP or Reg Bd (F) @ 7AP **6-10
Chinese crossbowmen - Reg Bw (I) @ 4AP or Reg Bw (O) @ 5AP **6-10
change
Chinese cavalry - Reg Cv (I) @ 6AP **2-3
To Reg Cv(S) @ 10AP
The 18,000 cavalry of the Southern circuit militia are described as ‘elite’ troops in the Liaoshi.
Chinese bolt-shooters - Reg Art (O) @ 8AP 0-2
Chinese stone-throwers - Reg Art (I) @ 4AP or Reg Art (S) @ 10AP 0-2
Palisade for camp - TF @ lAP 0-12
Ships - Irr Shp (S) @ 4AP or Irr Shp (O) @ 3AP [Bd or Bw] 0-2
Horse-transports - Irr Shp (I) @ 2AP [Cv or LH] 0-4
Steppe allies - List: Tribal Mongolian (Bk 3)
Only from 951 AD - 979 AD:
Northern Han allies - List: Late T'ang and Five Dynasties Chinese (Bk 3)
Only after 1120 AD:
Hsi-Hsia allies - List: Hsi-Hsia (Bk 3)
Original notes:
The Khitan, nomads speaking a Mongolian language, had lived in southern Manchuria from 400 AD. In 907 Yeh-lu A-pao-chi started to transform their tribal organization into a centralized monarchy. The new Liao state expanded to control Mongolia and the Jurchid tribes of the northern Manchurian forests, and in 936 supported a Sha-t'o rebel in the creation of the Later Chin state, in exchange for a foothold in Chinese territory, including modern Beijing. They defeated several Sung Chinese attempts to regain this territory, but fell to a revolt of their Jurchid vassals in 1114-1125. Liao military strength was based on the elite ordo armies, mostly Khitan cavalry but including Chinese troops. The ordos were always the first troops to be mobilised. They were supplemented by troops from the Khitan, Hsi and other tribes, which were both political and military organizations, and a Chinese militia. (Some other elite bodyguard units existed, but are classified the same as the ordo troops.) Armies normally deployed with unarmoured cavalry in the first line, part-armoured cavalry in the second, and cavalry on armoured horses in the third. They formed regiments of 500-700 men, each attacking in turn. The "regular soldiers" of the ordo had each to provide four bows, long spear, short spear and halberd, and to ride an armoured horse. Contemporary art shows only lance, 1 bow, sword and mace. Clearly they provided the third line. They can dismount to attack or defend fortifications or attack war wagons either with halberd as Bd (O) or with bow as Bw (O). Regulations specify that they should also each provide a forager and an orderly. Other passages in the Liao Shih reveal that the foragers were mounted and "wore armour and carried weapons" - so presumably these provided the part-armoured cavalry of the second battle-line, probably carrying some of their master's surplus weapons. If the orderlies were the unarmoured riders attending Khitan armoured cavalry in Chinese art, they may have provided the first line. Alternatively, the first line light horse might have been Khitan "tribal" troops, not ordo personnel. The minimum marked * applies if any orderlies are used. Equal numbers of elements of ordo Kn (F), ordo Cv (O) and (if used) ordo LH (F) must be used, including the C-in-C's and sub-generals' elements. A general Chinese levy could be called on, but was rarely used. The 10,000 Chinese militia mentioned in one passage as following the army for pioneer work may be such a general levy, and if the last Liao armies were really anything like the reported 700,000 men, they must have included a large militia component. They are distinct from the "old and the young" who were "herded together" by the Khitan foragers to lead the advance against a besieged city, soaking up enemy missiles in the style used later by the Mongols. By contrast Chinese swordsmen, crossbowmen and artillery were trained and periodically reviewed, and some served even in the ordo armies. Minima marked ** apply only if any (nonallied) Chinese troops are used. The Khitan were offered “fierce-burning oil" in tribute from Wu in south China, but declined to use it.
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