A Set of Proposals for:
IV: 32 Achaia post-1311 -- Naples in Greece (IV: List 61) -- Sicily in Greece (IV:5) -- Acciajuoli Athens 1370 to 1456 -- Morean Byzantine -- Knights of St John -- Venice in Greece -- Navarrese Company.
Under Discussion
Author: Jim Webster
While the Catalans took over Athens and Thebes, Much of Achaia proper remained in Latin hands and it was only in the following century that it fell slowly to the Morean Byzantines. French influence in the area was slowly replaced by Italian and Navarrese.
All these armies are small so I would recommend 68 men per element.
Warm. Ag 1. WW, Rv, H(S), H(G), O, V, RGo, Rd, BUA
C-in-C Irr Kn (O) @ 20AP 1
Sub- general- as above 0-1
Feudal Knights and esquires. – Irr Kn(O) @ 10AP 5-12
Note 1
Replace Feudal Knights and Esquires with Condottieri elmetti Reg Kn(O) @ 12AP 0-10
Note 4
Military order brother knights and sergeants Reg Kn(S) @ 15AP 0-2
Note 2.
Greek archontes. Irr Cv(O) @ &AP 0-3
Note 3
Frankish Spearmen Irr Sp(I) 4AP 0-6
Frankish Crossbowmen Irr Bw (O) @ 4AP 0-8
Replace Frankish Spear or Crossbow with Mercenary Crossbow Reg Bw(O) @ 5AP 0-10
Note 4
Frankish of Melingoi archers. Irr Ps(O) @ 2AP 0-4
Melingoi Javelinmen Irr Ax(O) @ 3AP or Irr Ps(S) @ 3AP 4*-10
Greek Archers. Irr Bw(I) @ 3AP. 6- 16
Replace Greek Archers Irr Bw(I) with Greek Ps(O) @ 2AP. 0-4
Venice in Greece Allies 0-12
From June 1315 to July 1316
Sicilian Allies
Note 5.
Up to and including 1376
Naples in Greece Allies
Note 6
From 1370
Acciajuoli Allies.
Note 7
From 1376 to 1381 inclusive
Knights of St John Allies.
Note 8
From 1381
Navarrese Company Allies
Note 9
Venetians cannot be used with any other allies.
- Minima marked count only if any Melingoi are used.
- Minima marked count only if any Greeks are used
Note 1
I have cut the quality of the Knights from Kn(S) to Kn(O). My rational for this was that after the crushing of their forces by the Catalans they must have lost an awful lot of good men, and the reduction in French influence and its replacement by Italian would tend to also suggest dropping from (S) to (O). I have restricted them to a maximum of 12 knights and 1 sub-general because to produce large armies they had to have allies.
Note 2
The commander of the Teutonic Knights was killed fighting with the Achaians. But Knights of St John see below.
Note 3.
I have cut numbers because armies were smaller and I do not see Greeks forming a larger proportion
Note 4
There was a move from feudal holdings with their tenants turning out to fight to absentee Italian Landlords who maintained mercenary forces.
Note 5.
The Infante Ferdinand of Majorca landed in Achaia with an army of 500 mounted troops and a ‘great number of infantry’. He received the support of a lot of the nobility of Achaia and when defeated at Manolada members of the Achaian baronage were part of his army.
Note 6
The Angevins of Naples were regarded as overlords of Achaia by most people for much of the time and regularly sent troops or intended to.
Note 7
The Acciajuoli family, Florentines, originally in Angevin service, built up their holdings, starting with Corinth and eventually controlling Athens and Thebes as well.
Note 8
The Knights of St John Leased Achaia from the Angevins for five years during which they attempted to reorganise and control it as a base to fight against the Turks.
Note 9
The Navarrese company was hired by the Knights of St John and gradually came to control much of Achaia.
Naples in Greece** (Book 4, List 61)
This is effectively the Italian Condotta List for Naples, but without the Neapolitan Guardsmen or Hungarians.
Also in 1316 they had 1000 Burgundian Knights in Greece. I would suggest
Burgundians. Irr Kn(O) @ 10AP 6-12*
- Only if any Burgundians are used.
I bow to the experience of others as to how the Burgundians should be graded.
Sicily in Greece
This is the Sicilian list IV/5 but add
From June 1315 to July 1316
Achaian Allies.
Catalan Company Allies.
Note you can have Achaian Allies without Catalan Company Allies, but you cannot have Catalan Company Allies without Achaian Allies.
The Catalan Company sent a force to join the Infante Fredrick but he fought the battle before they arrived and they turned back hearing he was dead.
Acciajuoli Athens 1370 to 1456
In the 1380s Nerio Acciajuoli could be expected to field 70 lances, 800 Albanian horse and ‘a good many foot.’
Basing his forces on the Italian Condotta army list
Book IV/61B
Warm. Ag 2. WW, Rv, H(S), H(G), O, V, RGo, Rd, BUA
C in C Reg Kn(S) @ 35AP 0-1
Condottieri Sub general. As above. 0-1
Condottieri or lanze spezzate elmetti Reg Kn(O) @ 12AP 2-4
Feudal Elmetti Irr Kn(O) @ 10AP 0-2
Mounted Crossbowmen. Reg LH(I) @ 3AP 0-2
Albanian Light Horse. Irr LH(O) @ 5AP. 2 – 12
Mercenary Crossbowmen Reg Bw(O) @ 5AP 8-16
Greek Archers. Irr Bw(I) @ 3AP. 6 - 24
Replace Greek Archers Irr Bw(I) with Greek Ps(O) @ 2AP. 0-4
Albanian Archers Irr Ps(O) @2AP 0-4
Albanian Javelinmen Irr Ps(S) @ 3AP 0-4
Allies.
Morean Byzantine.
Footnote 1
Achaians Post 1311
Ottoman Turks.
Footnote 1
The Despot was his father in law and they campaigned together often.
Morean Byzantine
Warm. Ag 1, WW, Rv, H(S), H(G), O, V, RGo, Rd, BUA.
C in C –Reg Cv (O) @ 28 AP 1
Sub General, as above. 0-2
Stratiotai—Reg Cv(O) @ 8AP 1-2
Only before 1390
Palaiologan Stratiotai. Reg Cv (O) @ 8AP 0-2*
Foot Note 1
Garrison Spearmen Reg Sp(I) @ 4AP 0-8
Garrison Archers. Reg Bw (I) @ 4AP 8-12
Peasant Archers. Irr Bw(I) @ 3AP 20- 40
Replace Peasant Archers with Irr Ps(O) @ 2AP. 0-10
Maniates, Tzakones or Melingoi hillmen. Irr Ax(O) @ 3AP or Irr Ps(S) @ 3AP 0-16
Indented Byzantine Allied General. Reg Cv(O) @ 18AP 1**
Turbulent Pronoiai. Reg Cv(O) 8AP 6-8* *
Turbulent Pronoiai’s retainers. Irr Bw(I) 3AP 12-24**
Footnote 2
Only before 1347
Byzantine Allies, Palaiologan Byzantine.
Only from 1262 to 1263
Genoese Galleys –Reg Gal(F) @ 2AP Sp, BW, Ps 0-3
Genoese Horse transports. – irr Shp(I) @ 2AP [Cv } 0-3
Turkish Allies- List Anatolian Turkoman (Bk IV)
Only After 1315
Frankish feudal Vassals. Irr Kn(O) @ 10AP 0-4
Only from 1347 to 1458
Albanian Ally general –IrrLH(O) @ 10AP or Irr Cv(O) @ 12 AP 1***
Albanians. Up to ¼ archers, Irr Ps(O) @ 2AP, up to ¼ Javelinmen Irr Ax(O) @ 3AP, remainder Irr LH(O) @ 5AP 12-30
Only from 1370
Acciajuoli Athens
Only from 1382 to 1394 and from 1453 to 1454
Turkish allies, Ottoman (Bk IV)
Only from 1445 to 1450
Burgundians Irr Kn(O) @ 10AP 0-2
Only from 1459 to 1460
Papal-supplied Italian Mercenaries.
Men at arms Reg Kn(O) @ 12AP or Crossbowmen Reg Bw(O) @ 5AP 0-2
- only if not Palaiologan Allies are taken.
- Compulsory only if any indented Byzantine allies are taken. A Byzantine ally general can command any other Byzantine Troops.
- Compulsory only if more than 12 Albanian elements are used.
Footnote 1. As Late as the late 1380s small numbers of Cavalry (100 horse) were being sent south to help out in the Morea.
Footnote 2
I would argue that their Cv(I) ought to be upgraded to Cv(O). It seems to have been more turbulent that poor quality, and if necessary they could be taken as an allied command which would perhaps model them better.
Knights of St John
This stays the same except that they get
From 1376 to 1381 inclusive
Achaian Allies
From 1379 to 1381 inclusive
Navarrese Company Allies
Venice in Greece
Warm. Ag 1. WW, Rv, H(S), H(G), O, V, RGo, Rd, BUA
C-in C Reg Kn(S) @ 35AP 1
Condottieri Sub-general - as above @ 35 or Bd(S) @29 or Sp(S) @ 27 0-1
Condottieri or lanze spezzate elmetti Reg Kn(O) @ 12AP 2 to 22
Mounted Crossbowmen. Reg LH(I) @ 3AP 0-8
Militia Crossbowmen - Reg Ps(O) @2AP 0-16
Mercenary Crossbowmen. -Reg Bw(O) @ 5AP 0-12
Javelinmen -Reg Ax(O) @ 4AP or Swordsmen Reg Bd(I) @ 5Ap 0-4
Pioneers. Irr Hd(O) @ 1AP 0-4
Organ gun Reg Art(I) 4AP 0-1
Bombard -Reg Art(S) @ 10AP 0-3
Galley Crews Reg Ax(S) @ 5AP 0-1 per Ship(S) or Gal
Great Galleys Irr Shp(S) @ 4AP Bw(O), AX(S) 0-1
Galleys Reg Gal(F) @ 2AP [Bd(O), Bw(O), Ps(S), Ax(S) 0-4
Transports Irr Shp(I) @ 2AP LH or Bg 0-4
From 1351
Catalan Grand Company Allies
Before 1440
Militia Pavisiers and Crossbowmen, half Reg Bw(X) @ 7AP
Half Reg Bw(O) @ 3 AP on double depth bases. 4 to 12
Mercenary Billmen Reg Bd(O) @ 7AP 0-4
Handgunners. Reg Ps(S) @ 3AP 0-2
Only After 1411
Replace swordsmen or javelinmen with sword-and buckler men Red Bd(F) @ 7AP 0-4
1440 onwards.
Dalmatian Feudal Knights. Irr Kn(O) @ 10 AP 0-3
Dalmatian City Militia crossbowmen. Reg Bw(O) @ 5AP 0-4
Turks. Irr LH(F) 4AP 0-5
Stradiot Sub-general Irr LH(O) @ 15AP 0-1
Stradiots Irr LH(O) 5-15
Mercenary Billmen Reg Bd(O) @ 7AP 0-2
Handgunners. Reg Ps(S) @ 3AP 0-6
I have always been irritated when trying to produce a Venetian army in
Greece. First we have the Historical problem that Venetian influence started
in 1204 with the fall of Constantinople, yet the army starts in 1320.
The next problem is that we get is that large parts of Greece (Euboea for
example) were settled with colonists for which the lists have little
provision. Admittedly the situation has improved since the first edition of
the lists but needs improving more.
The record of numbers of a Venetian army that appears to be raised mainly in
Greece is that which Francis Bembo, Baillie and Captain of Negroponte had to
raise in 1402 to relieve Athens.
Letters were sent to Negroponte from Venice authorising an increase of the
cavalry force at its command "from 200-300 beyond the 50 for which
permission was previous accorded the said government" According to page 263, vol. 3 "A History of the Crusades" (Setton, general editor) "with this force
and with the bowmen and foot soldiers which they could raise locally (quote from Sathas, II, no 310, pp 91-92)
According to Chalcocondylas (Historia, IV) Bembo marched with 6000 men
Navarrese Company (Book 4, List 39)
Add to section
Only Navarrese Company from 1379
Achaian Allies
1394 and 1395
Ottoman Turk Allies
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