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Page history last edited by PBworks 12 years, 10 months ago

Chichimec ("Dog Peoples") and Pueblo Cultures (III/41)


1. The name

2. Gran Chichimeca


1. The name


Proposer: Duncan Head



Change the list name from Dog Peoples and Pueblo Cultures to Chichimec and Pueblo Cultures.



It is far from certain that Chichimec does mean "Dog Peoples" as stated in the list, though this view is widely held.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichimec says:

"The Nahuatl name Chīchīmecah (plural, singular Chīchīmecatl; ...) means "inhabitants of Chichiman"; the placename Chichiman itself means "Area of Milk". It is sometimes said to be related to chichi "dog", but the i's in chichi are short while those in Chīchīmecah are long..."


"The name Chichimec literally means people who came from Chichimani, the "Place of Sucking"; Chichimecs are therefore to be seen as newly-born, or young peoples."

- Nigel Davies, The Ancient Kingdoms of Mexico (Penguin 1982) p.129.



2. Gran Chichimeca


Proposer: Larry Dunn





Only if Gran Chichimeca Tribes after 1248 AD:

Change C-in-C to Irr Wb (F) @ 13AP 0-1

Change sub-generals to ally-generals – Irr Ps (O) @ 7AP or Irr Bw(O) @ 9AP or Irr Wb (F) @ 8AP All

Upgrade Irr Bw (I) to Irr Bw (O) @ 4AP All

Change Tribesmen with bow to Tribesmen with club or other close combat weapon – Irr Wb (F) @ 3AP 0 or 1/3


Add to notes:

"After the settlement of the Aztecs in the Valley of Mexico, the term Chichimec was applied by them to the less civilized tribes remaining in the northern desert, an area known to the Spanish as the Gran Chichimeca. They were comprised of the Guachichile, Pames, Zacatecos and Guamares tribes, who were each the others’ main foe but could ally to face a common threat. Their prowess with the bow greatly impressed the Spanish, and they were much feared by more settled Indians for their military skills and savage treatment of prisoners. Fighting naked, some painting their bodies and hair red, they are said to have unleashed a hail of arrows which was immediately followed up by men behind with clubs or other close combat weapons. The Gran Chichimeca Tribes may not use warrior societies. If any Gran Chichimeca Wb (F) are used, one third of each command’s Foot troops must be Wb (F)."




The accounts of Gran Chichimeca tribes which support this suggested revision are summarized in Ian Heath’s Armies of the Sixteenth Century volume on the New World (The armies of the Aztec and Inca Empires, other native peoples of the Americas, and the Conquistadores 1450-1608; Foundry Books, 1999). Their extreme proficiency with the bow is set out in considerable detail. Although the Guachichile are described as relying on rough terrain and using various skirmishing tactics, which would classify them as Ps (O), these tactics are usually described as efforts to thwart the cavalry of the Spanish, so may not have been universal. At the same time they are said to have attacked with a hail of arrows followed by a charge from behind by the wielders of clubs and similar weapons. Accordingly, it seems most appropriate to retain the option for open order and/or loose order archery, the loose order bowmen being sufficiently superior to their contemporaries to rate as (O).


In discussion not all members were sure that Bw (O) was justified, since although Chichimec arrows are described as piercing mail shirts, the range of these feats is not specified; if the tribes used their bow primarily as a hunting weapon and thus emphasized accuracy at short range over hitting and power at long range, they would be superb bow-armed skirmishers, but may not have been able to fight archery duels over longer distances in the open. However the "hail of arrows" mentioned by Heath suggests the sort of high-volume archery associated with Bows rather than with Psiloi.

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